Patrick O'Keefe: Be Creative and Experiment

[Richard Millington]

Following Martin's recommendation, this week we've interviewed Patrick O'Keefe. Patrick is the author of Managing Online Forums and the founder of the iFroggy Network. Patrick is responsible for over 100,000 members across a multitude of networks.

1. Hi Patrick, can you tell us a little about yourself?

My name is Patrick O’Keefe and I own the iFroggy Network. It’s a network of websites covering various interests. I’m also the author of “Managing Online Forums”, a practical guide to managing online forums, communities and social spaces. I’ve been professionally developing websites since 1998 and directly managing online communities since 2000. Community management is something that I am really passionate about.

2. How did you become involved with online communities?

I guess my first involvement with an online community was simply as a user, probably in the mid 90s. I ended up working as a moderator on one community, while dabbling in web development. My first website with a domain name of it’s own was iFroggy.com, which was a web portal of sorts. I loved Yahoo! (still do) and you could say that I wanted to create my own mini-Yahoo! – a do whatever I could portal. In the progression of this site, I launched the first community that I was directly responsible for, which was the iFroggy.com Community.

Eventually, though, I started launching other sites and I found that I preferred niche sites that had a specific purpose or goal, such as KarateForums.com and PhotoshopForums.com. Communities that existed to discuss a specific topic. I moved away from the iFroggy.com concept, but kept the iFroggy name as the banner brand for the sites that I run. And my knowledge has grown from there.

3. How does the income from your book stack up against your salary?

I don’t really like to talk about my income, but I will tell you what pretty much everyone told me about these sorts of books: no one gets rich from them. The people who may do well generally do well from what the book provides, rather than the book itself. For example, a consulting practice. Now, me doing everything backwards, I blew that all up. I wrote a book that makes it so that no one would ever need to speak with me. Everything that I know is in the book, everything that I have seen and dealt with. It’s all there. I held nothing back. Who needs to pay bills? Not me, apparently. Heh.

Seriously, though, I have worked very hard to market it and get it out there, however I could. While I’ve been pleased with the sales, the marketing efforts aren’t over because this is a book that I wrote to be relevant for a long time, to maintain a sense of timelessness, to the very best of my ability. Regardless, it won’t be something that I could live off, or anything like that.

Your book 'Managing Online Forums' is a comprehensive guide to running community discussion boards. Looking ahead, do you still see forums the cornerstone of successful communities or will other technology replace it?

The cornerstone is generally relative to what one wishes to accomplish. Forums are one tool. This relates to a question that I have been asked at least a few times, which is something along the lines of “What is the future of forums?” or “Do forums have a future?” Forums are text based communication. When you break it down, that’s what they are. It is hard for me to see a time, in my lifetime, where we will not want to communicate through text online, without seeing or hearing the person we are conversing with.

If you look at the hot social media websites or tools out there, often times you’ll see elements of forums. Blogs have a lot in common with forums. They are more similar than they are dissimilar. So, what I would say is that forums will continue to be a vital part of the social web for a very, very long time.

What do you enjoy about running online communities?

I enjoy when everything works as it should, when we create the environment that we’re aiming for. I’ll give you an example. At KarateForums.com, our aim is to create a friendly, respectful martial arts discussion community. At some martial arts communities, some people are openly and grossly ridiculed because of the art they take and it’s perceived applicability or value in the eyes of others. But, at KarateForums.com, we don’t allow this. When people are discussing an otherwise controversial issue in a respectful, polite manner – that’s what I enjoy.

When someone comes in and asks for help dealing with a difficult student or with a student with some sort of learning impairment and they receive advice that they then take back and try and it helps them to reach that student and they come back and exclaim their appreciation – that’s what I enjoy. I enjoy when people are helped kindly. I enjoy when people tackle an issue kindly. I enjoy when people come together to grow, learn and engage.

I enjoy the camaraderie of my staff. I enjoy when people find value in the community. I enjoy when I see members that simply “get it” and get what the community is about, and enjoy it.

When can we expect another book from you?

I appreciate that you would even be interested enough to ask! The answer is I don’t really know. I have some ideas, but I’m the type who has a lot of ideas. It can be difficult to find time to dedicate to those ideas because of the commitments that I already have. But, I do hope to write another one.

iFroggy Network umbrellas several communities. Which communities are these, what is the business model and what advice would you give to others looking to make money from online communities?

Most of the websites in the network have a community element, whether it be forums, blog comments or something else. But, the forums in the network are SportsForums.net, KarateForums.com, the phpBBHacks.com Support Forums, PhotoshopForums.com and CommunityAdmins.com. The primary model is advertising based.

I think that the biggest advice is simply to be creative and experiment. Play with ad networks, premium members, CPA offers, product sales, merchandise and different forms of advertising. For example, take a look at the SitePoint Marketplace. That evolved out of the SitePoint Forums. You could consider them paid ad threads or a classifieds section. The audience that you have cultivated is worth something – don’t just give it away. If you reach a certain size, you should look at direct selling of advertisements because that is where you can make the most money with advertising. Gary Vaynerchuk talked about a solid manner of doing this, which is down as of writing. Basically, come up with plans and reach out to those already spending money in your space. You could do a lot worse than being rejected.

Do you hire people to run communities? If so, what qualities and experience do you look for, and how can people apply?

Right now, I do not hire people. I have a small volunteer staff of moderators, but beyond that, I don’t generate enough income to be able to hire people, unfortunately. One day!

But, I will talk about what I look for in moderators and, as such, what I’d want if I hired someone. Really, personality is so huge. Character is so important. I don’t want people who are experts, I want people who are kind, good people, who care and try hard. If they are experts, that’s cool. But, kindness is key, as is the ability to communicate. So much of what we do is knowing how to form sentences properly. Not grammatically, but in the way of getting the point across without adding fuel to a fire. And that is where a lot of people do not excel. Even on the support communities I run, it’s all about the personality. For example, on PhotoshopForums.com. I don’t care if someone is a Photoshop guru. I care that they have knowledge that they are willing to share to help others in a kind and respectful manner, that is what it’s all about.

Every online community manager has an opinion on what big companies are doing wrong. Which organization has most annoyed you with their approach (or lack thereof) to online communities?

To be honest, I don’t get into that discussion. I think a lot of it is riddled with shortcoming and unfair standards. It’s easy to pick at people, it’s harder to actually do something. Corporations are simply people and I believe that it’s important to treat people politely. Yes, there are corporations who I think could do better. But, there are also people who I think could do better. I don’t think it helps anyone to treat them differently. In this case, anyway.

Who else should we interview for Commania?

Well, you already got to Martin! J Connie Bensen, Jake McKee, Darren Rowse, Jason Falls, Chris Brogan, Wendy Piersall and Ted Sindzinski. Is that enough people? Heh.


Thanks Patrick for participating. You can find more of Patrick's thoughts on his blog: ManagingCommunities.com

[Patrick O'Keefe]

Thanks for the kind words, Angela and Paul. I really appreciate your support. :)

Paul, not a specific forum dedicated to that topic, no. Can't say that I have. Sorry. But, I would approach it similar to other communities.

Thanks,

Patrick

[Paul C.]

Wow, what an interview! You've encouraged me to buy your book, Managing Online Forums.

Have you any experience in managing a philanthropic forum, people gathered for the purpose of discussing meaningful social or values issues?

[Angela Connor]

Great interview Patrick. I was just talking about your book.

[Patrick O'Keefe]

Thanks for the kind words, Mr. Amarasinghe. I'm glad that you enjoyed it.

The martial arts are an interesting subject because there are a lot of different arts and often, a lot of strong willed individuals that feel that their way of practice is the best. That can lead to a lot of inflammatory or unproductive remarks. But, we've managed to keep them in check through consistent enforcement of our user guidelines.

Thanks,

Patrick

[Amitha]

When people are discussing an otherwise controversial issue in a respectful, polite manner – that’s what I enjoy.

I couldn't agree more :-)

It's a tough call when managing a martial arts forum isn't it? :-) Just kidding. A great interview, and had some great insights into managing online communities

[Patrick O'Keefe]

My pleasure, Mr. Norris. Thanks for reading.

Patrick

[John Norris]

Thanks for being open about the financial/consulting side of things. Interesting to see if that changes with the wave of 2.0 going mainstream.

[Patrick O'Keefe]

Thanks so much for having me, Rich. It was a pleasure.

I'm glad that you enjoyed it, Mr. Ewing. I'm on board with you! :)

Patrick

[Tom Ewing]

Lots of great stuff in this interview but this is what stood out for me:

When people are discussing an otherwise controversial issue in a respectful, polite manner – that’s what I enjoy.

YES. That's one of the things I've always enjoyed most too. Small talk? Well, I can get it offline, I can get it on. But talking about meaty stuff like adults - that's all too rare!